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welcome back to "the weekend." week two of the election first trial wrapped with a bombshell. under redirect from the prosecution, former "the national enquirer" david pecker admitted he brought former playbook model karen mcdougal story about her affair with to influence the election. the story says would have been gold if it had been published. he also detailed conversations he had with white house staffers after trump took office about extending mcdougal's agreement. and joining us now to discuss it

all is new york times investigative reporter susanne craig and senior correspondent laura jarrett. i was reading all yawls notes all week. >> that means my friend laura jarrett was slower to respond to text message. we have been watching this breathlessly but there are a lot of folks not watching it with the same level of detail. if someone was not tuned in all week what would you tell them what the top line of what happened? >> the top line is a man who has no donald trump for the better part of the last 20 years came in and told the jury that they deliberately sat in a room and schemed to try to influence the election and should try to hide information from voters. he said it plainly, he did not sugarcoat it, he did not try to hedge at all.

when pressed on cross- examination, he refused and doubled down. he is -- this is a person who is like this tabloid mogul. you might think it is seedy but it is not seedy at all. he is like an affable father. the jury is making eye contact with him. he is completely likable as a witness and also michael cohen. he is not punching back in the same way. he has so many deliverables for this prosecution. >> susanne, on that note about him not being michael cohen, david pecker is someone who talked about idolizing and respecting donald trump to this day. he was someone when they were sitting around, it wasn't just these cases and what we are talking about, he was also writing stories and putting them in the national enquirer about trump's rivals. he seems to be a much better witness than michael cohen who has already been and gone to jail for lying. talk a little bit about that. >> i think it is important that people know that david pecker

is a principle here. he was talking to donald trump and another principle . michael cohen is a lawyer that was going out and executing what donald trump wanted. donna trump's lawyers i think will make michael cohen out to be a rope actor but what you saw with david pecker was a principle ahead of the national enquirer talking to his friend donald trump about planting stories in the national enquirer and also killing stories. there is this incredible meeting that happened in august 2015 were david pecker is called over and michael cohen says, the boss wants to see you. they are in her room, and they talk about catching stories and killing them. particularly ones about donald trump and women. they also talked about opportunities where donald trump would get good press but then other stories where

michael cohen would come up with that idea about a rival like ben carson or ted cruz and send the nugget over and the national enquirer would, according to david pecker, quote unquote, embellish it and ride a negative story about it. it was story after story about like headlight after headline came up and i have to say, david pecker , justin delivery was incredible. unlike michael cohen he was calm and cool and a colleague of mine wrote in the times in a post that he was almost he was giving a deli order. mustard and all types of relish. i will have turkey. his delivery was so smooth and calm. it was very powerful and ironically for someone who makes up stories partly for a living and if for years. he was, like, very credible.

>> one of the things, the family versus campaign concerns, and it came up in court and the prosecution asked, did he and and that he is trump, are they asking david pecker did he ever say anything that made you think his concern about the stories getting out was for his family rather than his campaign? and he said, i thought it was more for the campaign. and he says, why do you think that? and it was like every time i had a story, the family was, his family, was never mentioned. why is that an important point? >> that is devastating for them because the party line all along from the defense side has been this was all about trying to save the family embarrassment. this was in trying to subvert democracy or do anything to the voters. this was making sure milani had did not find out or she wasn't

embarrassed. milani has not been and that courtroom not one day since the trial started. david pecker, again, talking directly to the more jury sang milani it wasn't part of this but this is about the campaign. even though the defense has not been about the phone -- you remember, joe tacopina used to always say that. it has not come up as a legal defense but they wanted to get that out there so you may hear it on closing argument they and thinking it was legitimate. i think u2 is trying to get it out there right now for >> in mcdougal's dna, they said it was after the election. we are seeing time after time the defense able to order the prosecution, excuse me, take all of those things that trump has said. trump lied on air force one when talking to reporters about this. he said no, i had nothing to do

with it. we did not pay her. when you think about the long train that we have of this conversation, we are at the top of that at this point. >> we are and it was interesting because donald trump's lawyers and the defense are making it out to be that the things that went on just standard operating procedure. david pecker and donald trump have known each other for decades. they met at mar-a-lago years ago. for a long time, david pecker has had a relationship with donald trump that has been mutually beneficial . david pecker will ride in national enquirer positive stories about donald trump and in return donald trump, especially during the apprentice years would give stories about either himself or apprentice candidates it was manna from heaven. news gold for david pecker because that was his stock in trade. they were trying to portray that this was just more of that and in the opening statements,

donald trump's lawyers actually said that they tried to -- trying to influence -- is democracy. that's what people try and do. what was different about this and what the government lawyers were showing is that during the election, the arrangements that were reach and karen google who is the playmate that donald trump had a relationship with, nine months or a year, these payments that went to karen make google and others were larger than usual. the national enquirer national -- have a limit of $10,000. these went well over that. in the case of karen mcdougal, they had a contract with her and that was according to david pecker solely to keep her story off the market but she did in

signing that get other things with the agreement. she got, you know, she would have a column, she would get on the cover of a magazine. david pecker said that was all window dressing for the payment to keep her quiet but donald trump's lawyers will say that contract was actually legitimate and payment for services. that will come down to what the crime is. what was that payment, wasn't legal or not? >> you have the hush money case in new york and then you have before the supreme court the argument over presidential immunity. it's easy to talk about those in silos, but you say they are connected. >> they are connected because they are asking the courts, juries, and the country, is donald trump above the law. in the hush money case, you have a person who repeatedly attack potential wishes is that he is under a gag order. unlike any other defendant, he

has not seen any repercussions. the prosecutors want a big fine. they don't want jail time. the judge has not ruled and it's odd that he has not. i am sitting in the supreme court and you are listening to the justices talking about someone murdering their arrival and getting away with it and the justices are saying back and forth, no man is above the law. you would agree with me. and mr. trump's attorneys are saying yes. but at the same time saying if you were to kill somebody he would be immune from that. i was struck by in the same week in two different courtrooms and different cases they are both fundamentally sort of at bottom and testing the legal system, a stress test for the country. >> you can almost hear michael steele who was away in bucharest, -- >> why has judge merchan not

ruled on the gag order? >> i think he is concerned about this going up on appeal. ruled on the gag order? >> i think he is concerned about this going up on appeal. in. if you will stick around, we have much more to discuss. by the way, i wrote about how this trial, the election interference trial, seems to be diminishing donald trump and away we don't often see. it is in friday's edition of the msnbc daily newsletter.

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donald trump violated his gag order again. they presented the judge late this week with four new examples of trump targeting key witnesses michael cohen and david pecker. there are 14 violations in total and they would check trump held an account -- in content. susanne craig and laura jarrett are back with us. >> susanne, it feels incredulous that we can see

him posting on his social media site and raging against the machine outside of the courtroom about his rights being trampled on and he cannot speak but yet there is a camera with a microphone and audio. >> and that hearing is coming up. i think the number will be higher. it's like planes at the airport. they keep stacking up. i don't know where this is going. there will be fines most certainly . i know there are options but somebody will be put in another -- in control of the social media. i think there are some options open to the judge but his misdemeanor in the courtroom, there has been a lot of discussion about it. i think one thing that is notable about it is he has not acted out in the courtroom because the penalty for that is so severe he could be put in jail. he was warned once by the judge when he was huffing and puffing and making motions in front of a prospective juror during jury

selection, but we have not seen any of that since that day. i think for all the discussion about is he sleeping in court is he awake? what is he doing? the important thing i take out of it is he not doing anything that will get him into hot water in the courtroom in terms of his behavior. outside of the courtroom huffing and puffing but inside he is very -- has been very calm and that respected >> part of the reason this is so interesting is the question if this will have a chilling effect on witnesses. this week, there were a series of witnesses including a former assistant who said they were here under duress. but they had details that filled in a lot of blanks. >> a longtime assistant has been described in the newspaper at the gatekeeper to donald trump. she got on the stand and she told the jury that in his microsoft outlook contacts he has information for karen

mcdougal and stormy who we assume to be stormy daniels. why would you say that matters? maybe they were apprenticed contacts but for someone who is trying to stiff on these women for so long as the stories came out, again to show the jury, or no, they were close enough that they were in his outlook contact . in his rolodex. and again, hearing from somebody who is like the ultimate insider. i think at one point they sort of had an intimate sort of gesture moment as she was leaving the stand. they locked eyes and this is somebody who we trust and is valuable to him. but here's the thing, guys. her legal bills are being paid by the trump organization. >> and it was striking to me as i was reading the transcript, her testimony seemed restricted. they asked for specific things and then got her off. it wasn't a situation where they were going expensively.

>> i think they wanted to establish something specific and that was about stormy daniels and she was potentially , she obviously met him and there was an encounter alleged, but she comes to trump tower in 2007 and she rides about it and the allegations yesterday or the suggestion was she was actually there to be a contestant on celebrity apprentice. i think they are trying to establish in that discussion the nature of the relationship wasn't sexual, but she was trying to get on the show. she wanted something from donald trump. >> this will feel like a preface where a lot of basic facts were substantiated before you bring in michael cohen as the narrator to begin piecing together documents, evidence,

and the connective tissue that will make for the heart of this case. >> they needed to lay the groundwork for where did this alleged team,. how do you even start? pecker allows them to do that. then they have to put in witnesses who will have to walk through some of the routine legal things like how do you get into the documents for let's bring in the banker. how do you verify it is his email server? you bring in his assistance but having pecker as the first witness gives them a road map of where they are going and i think the trump team knew it wasn't going to be michael cohen first. there was no antagonistic fireworks right away. they were careful with pecker to not beat him up on the stand. he still considers donald trump a friend. i am interesting -- i think it will be fascinating. she, again, has known him for so long. she was working at star magazine

that she goes way back with donald trump. >> she was in that crucial meeting in august 2015 where they cooked up this plan where david pecker would be the eyes and ears of the campaign and she was walking in and out of the meeting. what did she hear? i think that will go to corroborate michael cohen when he gets on the stent and also david pecker. just more information that comes together. laura, i would be curious. where do you think michael cohen will fit through in the witness order? i don't think they will put them at the end, but what do you think about michael cohen? would he be a final would expect >> if i was trying this case i would not have michael cohen get at the end because i think it is too risky. you do not want to end on him if it does not go well. if for whatever reason he unravels on the thing, if i am

the prosecution i cannot let that go into the jury's hands and i need a little bit more control. i think i would put him somewhere in the middle and have someone else be the book again. someone more control. someone a little more boring, actually. that is how i would do it. but nobody asked me. he met one of the things that's really interesting is the trump team is ready for michael cohen. he is a person they are focused on and the person donald trump on truth social is focused on. i think there is a concern and i talked to some legal mind especially democrats watching this and they are worried michael cohen comes to the stand, they are worried he might mess it up because of who he is. the things he has already done. >> this is why the case that dormant for so long because prosecutors were so worried that he would not be credible enough and there would be so much baggage they could not get over the finish line.

it was known as a zombie case within the district attorney's office because it would die and then it would come back again. this kept happening but i think they have to come to grips with the fact that michael cohen will be part of this. maybe not the linchpin or star witness, that he will be part of this and they started to preview some of the credibility issues so there jury has their heads around going into it. >> donald trump was more demure than before and i think michael cohen was -- once a day in corporate >> thank you for letting us start with this. next, the big vulnerability david testimony may have exposed in donald trump. rock -- representative robert garcia is here next. that's coming up on "the weekend."

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donald trump legal troubles are overshadowed what he really wants us to focus on his attacks on joe biden. as we noted this week, his testimony is reminding americans of the messy and chaotic issues his campaign is working to make them forget. doing so as perceptions of the trump era have started to improve. joining us now is congressman robert garcia. >> there's a part of this where when you talk to folks, they forget the pandemic was as bad as it was especially at that time for a while, the trump folks were saying we were better off four years ago. now we are in collapse. congressman, this is a huge part of the selection. trying

to get voters to remember that what they felt like during the trump beers. they seem to have forgotten. >> we have complete chaos, someone trying to dominate all of our allies an act criminal and someone -- building bridges and roads across the country. the contrast could not be more clear. you have corruption, chaos on one end and a good decent man who is working for the american people. i think the contrast will be more clear and clear as we move to november. >> i think it is really that you have donald trump complaining that he has to be in court. it's finally dawning on him what it means to be a criminal defendant. he is being away from the trail and the biden administration trolling trump are not

campaigning on wednesday. saying, we found out where trump was but he was golfing, not campaigning. golfing, when your entire campaign is about enacting revenge of fusion for yourself and doing nothing to make americans' lives better, it makes sense that you wouldn't need to speak to voters. donald trump when he is not causing crimes and trying to hurt the american people, he is out there golfing and hanging out at mar-a-lago and throwing parties. bending all of his time on social media attacking the courtroom and judges and jurors. where we are at right now is a moment for us as a community and country, we have to focus on the stakes. they could not be higher. donald trump is a criminal and comment and should not have the support of the american public. the republican party in congress has turned their back on democracy and doing the right thing and will do whatever they can to help him and we've got to focus and

remember this is about an election that will have huge consequences on the future of our country, our families and what happens to us across america. we are being reminded with these trials how high the stakes are. >> you had a split screen this week of literally donald trump in court looking small and diminished and unpresidential and president biden across the country speaking to members of the labor union and going to florida talking about the abortion ban taking effect. the stakes for the american people in this election. >> then you have the supreme court articulating the stakes because you are reminded what happens when a court gets staffed with justices more interested in being republican being justices. >> he tweeted that the thing to remember about the republican judges control of the report is they are republicans first and

judges second. that's like -- that set me back when i heard that. >> i think a lot of people see that and they will powerless. it's a product of the trump years but the question is, what do you tell people where do we go from here? >> trump is, by the way sleeping through half the trial. this example -- exactly. who's too old and who is ready to lead. donald trump is falling asleep and all of these presentations. the jury is watching this man and the way he is acting a fool in the courtroom. where we go from here is we have to be committed first and foremost to getting the truth. i think what we heard from the supreme court should be chilling to all of us in this country. the fact that you can have presidential immunity committing crimes is insane. it's also a reminder of how these -- how high the stakes are. these different justices were put on, many of them, by donald

trump. we have to be careful about what the election means >> if you are a member of one of the bodies that is intended to be a check on executive privilege that it's almost affront to the rule -- role you play as a member of the house of representatives, don't worry. he has absolute immunity and absolute power and there are no longer checks and balances. >> and then he is the king. isn't that the opposite of what we said we want to? >> the idea that you can walk in knowing you can commit crime after crime after crime and have no consequences because you are the president of the united states goes against everything this country was founded on and everything we believe in. this is an important case and scary to watch. you are seeing folks like justices soda mayor and kagan supporting democracy but these judges are causing incredible harm to our institution as

well. >> quickly, trump is saying to his supporters, i am fighting for you but he's actually sitting in there quiet. he said he wouldn't sleep and maggie hagerman said he was asleep for the question i have is, there's a huge difference in what he is presenting to his supporters so they are seeing him as someone who is being aggressive and that manly man, but that is not how he is acting in court because the judge is not allowing him to act that way. >> is like the wizard of oz when the curtain comes down. and dorothy asked who he is, and he says, i am the man print up >> he is defeated and sleeping and tired. low-energy. sleepy donald trump. i think what we are seeing is him for the comment he is. he's a liar and at the same

time we have president biden leading the country and doing the right thing and getting humanitarian aid not just to gaza but to sudan and haiti. i think that is what the american people will see. they are being reminded that donald trump is sitting a diminished person who tried to destroy our country paying hush money to prostitutes and people he is sleeping with and that is what the american people is seeing right now. >> keep that energy. next we are turning our attention to president biden who announced he would be happy to debate trump. is the feeling mitchell? this is "the weekend."

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he is fine to debate the ex- president. here's what he said on the howard stern show. >> i don't know if you are going to debate your opponent. >> i am. somewhere. i don't know when. i am happy to debate him. >> donald trump responded, let's do it right now. first of all, are you surprised that the president confirmed he would debate? we've been asking for a while. we finally got a solid answer. secondly, i want your take on his interview with howard stern. >> the question is, will donald trump debate joe biden? he's always going back and forth whether he will debate or not. joe biden will debate donald trump. we look forward to that but i think the hauer's interview --

howard stern interview was important. we will see what happens. i hope to see it. >> one of the things i found interesting as someone who covers the white house is that this interview, if you are somewhat like this was her this often from the president, it's like this is just another interview. but most voters, you have these voters listening to howard stern. so they are driving wherever they are going listening and that is different and probably speak to them in a different way. >> 100%. i think the president needs to reach voters where they are at. he needs to talk to different audiences. i think what he said in the interview, not just the way he

humanizes his story to the american public, but you bring up the story where he talked about losing his wife and his family and the way he talked that story and the way he's dealt walk to folks through physical thoughts about it and possibly taking his life at some point. i hurt -- i heard that and sought reaction to those comments. this is a president that has gone through immense trauma and people can relate to that. this is the kind of man you want as president especially when you compare to the alternative. >> when he was first elected he was only 29 years old and it was during christmas when his first wife and baby daughter were killed in a car accident by a drunk driver. he met one of the reasons he is doing this is because he reckoned rises that he has to do some persuasion and some of the universe he believes he can persuade are those nikki haley

voters. they have a new ad speaking to them. listen. >> birdbrain. i call her birdbrain. >> nikki haley has made an unholy alliance with rhinos, never trumpers and no prosperity. >> she's gone crazy. she's an angry person. >> she is not presidential timber. >> she's gone haywire. >> how do you bring those nikki haley voters back in? >> i don't think we have to. >> with interesting they are choosing to run this ad this early in the cycle. >> you have pennsylvania and 30,000 plus people voted for nikki haley. in a closed primary. they all know she is out of the race but that is a testament to their being a base of voters

that will not vote for donald trump. they understand the danger he is to democracy. to their own conservative values that they hold. i am happy to see those numbers and i think we will continue to see a lot of folks reject donald trump >> the becomes like the bill barr but not anymore because he said he would vote for trump. >> what i find really fascinating right now is they are only talking to the voters. we have asked them, why have you not called nikki haley or chris christie or the senators? >> michael steele asked the same thing. >> but that is the question. is it a mistake to just focus on the voters when they could talk to nikki haley? >> i don't think nikki haley would come out and be a surrogate for joe biden. she wants a future in the

republican party. chris christie, i think so. so, do you think he is a possibility? >> i think that joe biden and the vice president and team are talking to everyone. i think you will see more and more prominent republicans understanding mistakes and will speak out. i think at our convention, you will see conservative republican voices but joe biden will speak to every single american. this is not just about speaking to democrats and independents. he will speak to republican as well, republicans who believe in democracy. republicans who. -- who don't want a liar and criminal in the white house. >> we have to go but a point of privilege.

the thing is, there have been all of these calls for justice sotomayor to step down. i give president biden an opportunity to appoint someone to the court. what we are hearing this week is it's not as simple as it seems. >> anyone who listened to the supreme court trier -- trial and listen to justice sotomayor, this is a woman that need to be on the court. her intelligence and questioning on the way she walked us what immunity through the president would mean, we are proud of her and we need her voice and she drove the conversation. i think we are proud of the work she is doing. >> and stop telling latinos what to do. >> you are not allowed to

leave. congressman. thank you for being with us. we have more ahead. this is "the weekend" right here on msnbc.

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steaks. and there was a lot of blame to go around, but you, mr. trump realize that the real problem was black of leadership so ultimately you did not blame little john or meatloaf. you fired gary b.c. and these are the kind of decisions that would keep me up at night. >> that was from the white house correspondents dinner in 2011. a moment that seemed like a lifetime to. tonight's event is hours away. what are you expecting? >> excitement. they keep it close. we have collin joe's who will be the entertainer and when i talked to kelly about it for playbook, i asked what they were trying to do and reminding people why we are an organization. especially at this moment where there are actual members of the

world who are being killed and attained around the world and not being able to get in. people who were held. this is something that is a top of her mind and you will see that happening quite a bit i will introduce the best part which is our scholarships who i spent hours with. 30 of the smartest kids around. >> they are always so amazing. >> it's amazing watching them bounce around. >> the white house correspondence dinner is a fund raiser and celebration but it is also a reminder. at this moment, the association i think is more important now than ever before. i used to -- you and all the

work that the journalists do, you are the accountability and the window for not just the american people but the world. i mean, eugene is about to be the president of the association . in the 110 years they have been listed, only five president's have been black. none of them have been -- >> one president had been black. >> but -- >> the board itself. >> there have been five board members but no clear black president so we will do a little toast. the question was, did someone trust herself enough to pop this onset? >> there you go. we are just so proud of you. you will -- what do you want to say to the people?

what do you want to say to the people? >> i am excited and hopeful. the great thing is we have amazing colleagues and it's not just us and the people on tv, but the people who take the pictures of the president and record interviews with the president and record people next to the president. all of those people are at the core of this and i am excited. a little nervous but excited for the moment. thank you. you are way too sweet. >> were going to raise a glass to eugene. you inspire me every day with your journalism and commitment to the service work. but also in your ability to be you. >> thank you, guys so much. >> so, to eugene.

cheers. >> a quick programming note. msnbc will have special coverage of the white house correspondents dinner. we will have special coverage starting at 8:00 p.m. on msnbc and streaming on peacock. we'll be right back. aren, the joy oft. sara federico: at st. jude, we don't care who cures cancer. we just need to advance the cure. it's a bold initiative to try and bump cure rates all around the world, but we should. it is our commitment. we need to do this. oh... stuffed up again? so congested!

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that does it for "the weekend" this saturday morning. thank you to eugene daniels for sitting and for us today. we will see you back here tomorrow at 8:00 a.m. eastern. we will talk about president biden's re-election action -- efforts. just want to address the elephant in the room. >> i am the only guy in new york right now. apparently you are all there for some party. this is a much larger bottle than the one you had. let's just see how this works.