now, today's other top stories, a freight train derailment closed an interstate highway on a new mexico state line. the train was carrying fuel,

causing plumes of smoke to envelop the area. no one was hurt. the scene is under investigation. in south florida, a double- decker tour bus went up in flames, shutting down i-959 for hours. dozens of forests ran out of the bus to escape. no injuries were reported. it is unclear what sparked that fire. a delta flight departing from jfk to los angeles was reported to return to new york after an emergency slide fell off shortly after takeoff. the aircraft has been taken out of service and will undergo maintenance inspections. in moments, i will speak with two guests who were in court this week for donald trump trial. the fascinating detail we learned from trump's assistance when she took the stand, ahead. as we start the hours with breaking news this hour, another day of dangerous weather across much of this country. tornadoes, flooding, hail, and strong winds are a concern from the great lakes to texas. last night, there was a tornado

outbreak centered in nebraska. no deaths have been reported so far, but there are numerous injuries. taking a live look at the angry skies over houlton, kansas. more than 30 million people are on the path of severe weather. we will have a live report from hard-hit iowa coming up for you later this hour. meantime, live from msnbc headquarters in new york, welcome, everyone, to "alex witt reports". we begin with donald trump back in florida after a week of intense and damaging testimony in his hush money trial. his long-standing friend, david pecker, revealed over three days on the witness stand a scheme to pay off karen mcdougal and stormy daniels to protect trump's 2016 presidential campaign. that trial now adjourned until tuesday. then on thursday, the judge will hear a second contempt motion, accusing trump of violating the limited gag order of the case. meanwhile, new charges announced in the arizona 2020 fakie lector scheme. a total of 18 trump aides and allies were indicted by a grand

jury. although, trump has been named as an unindicted co- conspirator. we have several reporters and analysts covering these new developers for us. we will begin with nbc's jillian franco, who was at the courthouse yesterday. welcome. along with david pecker, we heard two witnesses, two new ones yesterday. what were the biggest headlines? >> that's right, alex. we heard from three witnesses on friday. the jury learned more about this alleged catch and kill scheme with the national enquirer, aimed to help former president trump ahead of the 2016 election. we also heard from trump's longtime executive assistant, who also managed all of his contact lists. she verified that trump did, in fact, have contact info for stormy daniels and karen mcdougal, two women who are central to this case. we also heard from a banking executive who worked with michael cohen, and who testified about the finances surrounding a shell company of cohen's. his testimony is set to

continue into next week. alex? >> okay, and what are you watching for when court resumes on tuesday, specifically? >> alex, it is going to be a shorter week in court. it is not happening on monday. he is back on tuesday. that banking executive is set to continue and this witness list is expected to grow throughout the week. on wednesday, he is out of the courtroom and back on the campaign trail, hitting two major midwestern battleground states, wisconsin and michigan. on thursday, he is back in the courtroom for a gag order hearing on thursday morning. as these alleged violations continue to pile up until the judge's ruling. i want you to hear from the former president as he left court yesterday. take a listen. >> this is eight days that we have all been sitting in this courthouse. this is an indictment in order to try an election by fraud and nothing like this has ever happened. eight days.

>> you heard the former president there, echoing what he has been saying on the campaign trail and on social media, calling this case a "witchhunt," and alleging that the biden administration is using it to keep him off of the campaign trail, as we had closer and closer to november. alex? >> julian frankel, thank you for that report. to follow it up, we have kristi greenberg, former federal prosecutor and former deputy chief of the criminal division at sd ny, now nbc legal analyst. and suzanne craig, investigative reporter, both of whom were in court this week. welcome, to you both. kristi, trump's lawyers tried friday to poke some holes in testimony. what do you think jurors took away from this week? >> we don't think the success -- defense was successful. trump was charged with falsifying business records in order to field an agreement with others to unlawfully influence the election. what you heard from david pecker was about that agreement, that donald trump,

david pecker, and michael cohen had to unlawfully influence the election. and they talked about and testified about this 2016 meeting where they anticipated that women may come forward and have damaging stories about trump that could hurt the campaign. david pecker testified that he was going to be the eyes and ears of this campaign, and that he was going to alert michael cohen and the campaign about anything that would be damaging so, to make sure those stories didn't see the light of day. however, what is really significant, for the conversations pecker testified, dealing directly with donald trump. both before the election and after the election. before the election, testified about talking to him about the story, trying to kill the story with karen mcdougal. after the election, he testified about conversations where donald trump thanked him for making sure those damaging stories did not see the light of day. the defense tried to act as though this was all business as usual, but that really

backfired, because it wasn't business as usual. the magazine is going to make money from publishing stories, not from killing stories. and so, that really -- i feel like pecker was a good witness for the state. >> suzanne, trump's former assistant, she didn't say much, but she did share a fascinating detail about the differences in how contact information for karen mcdougal and stormy daniels were listed. can you tell us about that? >> so, run a graph is an interesting person in trump's world. she was his assistant for decades. she wasn't on the stand for very long yesterday, but she did testify to some interesting things. there were two names that she testified that she entered into his contact database. one was karen mcdougal. you had her first and her last name, her email, i think there was a phone number there. it was actually put up on a screen for the court to see, and then the other information was stephanie clifford, but it didn't say stephanie clifford, all it said was "stormy," and

then it had a cell phone number. it is interesting, because i think part of the reason rona graff was brought in to testify was to establish potentially for the defense that the relationship between donald trump and stormy daniels could have been about stormy daniels wanting to become a contestant on "the celebrity apprentice," that she wanted something from him. because she came to trump tower in 2007, she has written about it in her book called "full disclosure," they had a meeting, and the allegation that was left for the defense by the jury is that she was there angling to get a slot or a celebrity spot on that show, "celebrity apprentice." >> interesting. kristy, you had taught blanche to explain somewhat awkwardly to the jury why he still calls trump "president." but, prosecutors have been objecting to his use of that title. why is that? >> well, it is confusing at times because it is referring to him as "president trump,"

during time periods when he wasn't president. a lot of the lead up we have been hearing about in david testimony was before the election, so it was confusing to refer to donald trump as the president during a time when he wasn't. so, it is just confusing for the jurors. but ultimately, i think the defense is doing this for two reasons, first, to placate donald trump. his lawyers in the civil fraud trial also referred to him as president trump even though there was no jury there, and they did the same thing in their court filings. so, i think the second point is to really drive home the point to the jury that this is not just any criminal defendant, he is the former president, and so he is somebody is different and should be treated differently by them and they should consider that when they deliberate. so, i think it is for the jury to placate him, as well as to drive that point home to the jury. >> and suzanne, david pecker

talked about how when he visited trump tower on january 12th, 2017, and james comey and others were there, he said trump introduced him as the owner and publisher of the national enquirer and added, pecker probably knows anybody -- more than anybody else in the room. it is a joke, unfortunately, pecker said they didn't laugh, but trump got a chuckle out of that? >> he did. it was quite a moment when that testimony was given in court, just to imagine that the head of the fbi and those other senior people were there, and that the head of the national enquirer is brought in to trump tower and he was brought up -- jared kushner actually brought him up to the office. he was going to talk to donald trump. and after that introduction, there was a side conversation, we believe, out of earshot of those people, including james comey, where donald trump, again, asks david pecker about, our girl, and how is she doing? and they have another conversation about the relationship that donald trump had with karen mcdougal, and is

she talking? you know, it is just at the front of his mind, even in that period of time, that this information could come out. >> christie, pecker asked trump one question on different occasions at trump tower, again at the white house, "how is karen doing?" i know from our notes when pecker spoke about stormy daniels, closed his eyes, moved his head side to side, how did he react to testimony about mcdougal, and why was he asking pecker about her? >> so, i think at that point, trump was asking the questions, because there had been some amendments to the agreement. after the election, there had been an amendment in the agreement to allow karen mcdougal to speak to the press. and that is very significant. again, it drives home the point, what was the purpose of this agreement? it was so that she would not speak to the press, prior to the election. the fact that she could speak

after the election and they made that do deal, it just shows that it has nothing to do with any other purpose. the fact that she wasn't able to seek the press, donald trump, when he learned about that amendment, was annoyed by it. pecker testified he was very upset and said, what are you doing here? we are losing control of this. so, will -- i think when donald trump was following up later, how is she doing, it pecker said, "she is quiet," everything is fine, she is still under the contract, she is still getting promotional opportunities, she is happy, don't worry. >> so, also thursday, after full day of damaging evidence, trump had this reaction in the hallway. let's take a watch. i'm so sorry, guys. we don't have that at the moment. oh, we do have it now. let's roll it. >> today was breathtaking in this room. you saw it, it was breathtaking. amazing testimony.

this is a trial that should have never happened, this is a case that should have never been filed, and it was really an incredible, incredible day. open your eyes. >> challenging question here for you, suzanne. are you able to add any context to "breathtaking," "amazing," and "incredible?" >> just in terms of the testimony that happened? >> yeah. i mean, he is saying -- but, he is not interpreting it in the way that a lot of people would be interpreting it, in terms of, damaging to him. right? i mean, he is just trying to downplay how much -- yeah, i think that is what they were trying to do. i mean, i think the testimony was all of those things, but i don't think reflected very well on him. and i have to say, and it is worth repeating, that david pecker was an incredible witness. he was steady eddie. he answered every question. it is interesting, for a guy

who makes a living pretty much either strong-arming people or writing horrible things about people, or making up stories, as we learned this week in court, he came across as very credible. >> okay, kristy and suzanne. i would like to hang on, please, because we are going to talk about the key moment with david pecker on the stand and a question that got everyone's attention. so, stay right where you are. also, he knows a lot of players in the trump trial, so later, i am going to ask anthony scarmuscci, the former white house medications director about his testimony. might be the most impactful from this trial. we are back in a quick 60 seconds. seconds. i think it's a great product. it's going to help a lot of patients. i'm your overly competitive brother. and i'm ready for a rematch. here take a free shot go ahead knock yourself out. your about to get served. seriously? get allstate, save money, and be better protected from mayhem like me.

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be comfortable that the agreement that we were going to prepare for karen mcdougal meant all of the obligations with respect to a campaign contribution." asked by the prosecutor, "were you aware that expenditures by a corporation made for the purpose of influencing an election and at the request of a candidate were unlawful?" pecker replied, "yes." kristy and suzanne are back with me. kristy, why it is a big deal that pecker was aware of potential illegality? >> it is important because it shows exactly why they structured these payments the way that they did. again, making a hush money payment on its own is not illegal. what makes it illegal, is if the purpose is to influence an election and it doesn't report with the limits that are in the campaign finance laws. so, when they structured the agreement with karen mcdougal, it really was just there and pecker testified to give ami

plausible deniability. they put in all this information about promotional opportunities and having her be on the covers of magazines, and ghost writing. they tried to make it look like there was a legitimate business purpose to this when really, all it was, was to make sure that she wasn't going to speak to -- >> okay, i hope you got to the end of that answer. you did it very closely. >> what about you, suzanne, with defense lawyer emile posey? suggested catch and kill, normal practice for the national enquirer. but, did he address the election factor that could have made is problematic for trump? >> i just want to pick up a little bit were kristy left off, because it is important -- the defense came in after -- you know, the whole thing is, david pecker is saying that the agreement was was just a windowdressing, that she had all of these things she was going to do, she was going to write a column, she was going to be on the cover of a magazine. that was just all

windowdressing, case law came knocking and they could say, she was doing something. but, the defense came in and said, well, hang on. do we actually think that she was getting money for services before? i think that is going to be a really important point in this case. you know, was the money that was paid to karen mcdougal actually for services, or not? but i think it is important for david pecker, who is engineering that agreement is saying, no, it 100% was not. it was just windowdressing and he went on to pay a fine to the federal election commission for an illegal payment for a corporation to influence an election. and i think a lot of the case when we get to summation is going to come down to that point. >> interesting. what about david pecker, christie, who agreed the stormy daniels story could have been national enquirer gold, and he had zero intention of publishing it? so, he killed it, because it would have hurt trump's campaign. why is that significant? what does it establish for a

jury? >> it is so significant, because the defenses whole argument here, is that this is just business as usual. so, these agreements, these sources, sometimes they publish things, sometimes they don't. but, that is not something that makes sense, when you have national enquirer gold, when these stories would have made the company money if they had been published. so, the fact that they killed them? that just shows you, again, what was the purpose? the purpose here was to remove the election. there was no legitimate purpose, other than that. >> suzanne, our teams pointed out one defense lawyer was sometimes talking to trump during sidebars, while other lawyers were conferring with the judge. you talked about how careful he is with the image he presents. so, what is the strategy there? >> well, i do not want to overplay that. but, sometimes, he is sitting alone when his lawyers go up to

talk to the judge. but other times, a lawyer will come over. i think, you don't know, it could just be because the lawyer is coming over, but it is certainly -- he looks very diminished when he is sitting there alone, when all of his lawyers go up. so, sometimes, you will see a lawyer come in and fill that void. we don't know if it is deliberate -- deliberate or not, but it is noticeable that it happens. and i want to be careful, it doesn't happen all the time, just do not like to overplay things and say it is always happening when it is not, but sometimes you will see it happening. >> and i also ask you, might it be -- we saw through the first week that he was closing his eyes at times. they said he was resting his eyes, others interpreted it that he is actually falling asleep. might it be, keep him engaged, as well? >> i think occasionally, you have seen a lawyer nudge him, especially earlier in the week. there were two times at least that i saw he was nodding off in court. other times, he appears to be resting his eyes. you can see that he is not a

sleep because he will make a motion, or he will hear a comment and react to it immediately. but, i would say on friday, everybody was tired and i was watching him during the testimony because i am in an overflow room this week and i could see him. and for more than half the day, he had his eyes closed or pretty much closed. very tired. >> i love the insight that you both are bringing to us, so we will have you do it again next weekend, kristy and suzanne, thank you so much. we have new video release of two hostages in gaza, including an american citizen. that is next. at is next. you n. jingle: ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ baby: ♪ liberty. ♪ head & shoulders is launching something huge. jingle: ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ the bare minimum. anti-dandruff shampoo made with only nine ingredients - no sulfates, silicones or dyes and packaged with 45% less plastic - giving you outstanding dandruff protection

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are watching sports with my dad. now, i work at comcast as part of the team that created our ai highlights technology, which uses ai to detect the major plays in a sports game. giving millions of fans, like my dad and me, new ways of catching up on their favorite sport. with this breaking news, we have new video being released of two hostages in gaza, including an american citizen. this video shows american, keith siegel, along with this israeli. let's go to megan fitzgerald, who is joining us with more on this. what do we know from this video, megan? >> what we know, just within

the last few hours, we are receiving that video showing the two hostages, one is an israeli citizen, the other is 64-year-old israeli-american, keith siegel. it is important to note that these are videos released by hamas. these hostages spoke under duress and msnbc has not been able to independently verify when or where it was filmed. in this video, siegel is very emotional. both men are expressing their love for their family. siegel, to give you some background here, he was taken from his couplets along with his wife on october 7th. his wife, aviva, was released 25 days into that war, after the last deal and has been very vocal ever since. in fact, she spoke multiple times to msnbc news, calling for the release of her husband, and advocating for a deal to bring home these hostages. i want you to listen, too, to a little bit of what she had to say. >> keith looked at me, and i could see that he could hardly breathe.

i don't know if any human can understand or imagine what it is like, feeling that you were going to die in a second, and trying just to figure out how to breathe. it is terrible. just a terrible, terrible feeling. >> yeah, just heartbreaking moments, she describes what it was like, being held hostage by hamas, and certainly has a lot of fear for the well-being of her husband. just within the last few hours, we are also hearing from siegel's daughter, who was speaking today. i want to quote you what they said. they said, seeing my father today only emphasizes how much we must reach a deal as soon as possible, to bring everyone home. and then, also, we are receiving a statement from the hostage family. i want to read part of this for you. they say, "the proof of life from keith siegel and omri miran is the clearest evidence that the israeli government must do everything to approve a deal for the return of all of

the hostages before independence day. the living should return for rehabilitation, and the murdered should receive a dignified burial." "now is the time for the government and its leader to prove through actions their commitment to the citizens of israel who await the return of the hostages." it goes on to say, to bring those hostages home. look, negotiations have obviously seen more dead ends than breakthroughs as pressures just continues to mount on prime minister benjamin netanyahu to reach a deal to get these hostages home. >> okay, megan fitzgerald, thank you so much for that. joining me right now, as former deputy assistant secretary of defense for the middle east and fellow at the washington institute, dana strohl. dana, this is the second hostage video released this week, following hamas' earlier release of that video , an israeli-american dual citizen. what does the release of footage of three hostages in such a short time indicate to you?

>> first of all, it tells us what we already know about hamas, which is that it is a terrorist organization. hamas senses that there is tremendous pressure on netanyahu and the israeli government to get to a deal. this weekend, the different hostage release videos, we saw an israeli delegation traveled to cairo, we saw an egyptian delegation traveled to israel, u.s. biden administration officials are saying they are cautiously optimistic that there might be renewed energy by hamas to get to an agreement, and there is just significant pressure. this is hamas terrorizing with propaganda, and these hostages under duress, videos to galvanize the israeli public to continue protesting and increase pressure on netanyahu and his war cabinet to be even more flexible in the terms of this deal. >> i am curious, dana, because he just left the biden administration and the department of defense. how much time has this issue

consumed? >> a significant amount of time. this is the priority for the director of the cia, bill burns. brett mcgurk, the middle east coordinator at the white house, devotes a considerable amount of his time to this. we know that officials from the carteret government in doha, the egyptian government in cairo, as well as the war cabinet in israel, authorizing continued, new parameters for the israeli negotiating team, that this is an around-the- clock daily effort to test the premise of what we can do to release these hostages and get to a cease-fire. just this week, the white house said there is a deal on the table, and it is up to hamas. >> and to emphasize your point, the secretary of state, antony blinken, is traveling, he will be there in the region on tuesday as we give our viewers a live look right now, a protest in tel aviv, or at least exclamations to bring hostages home there.

what do you expect from tony blinken, and his ability to push the ball forward? >> what is really important about secretary blinken's trip is that it is not just a u.s. official meeting with a saudi official. there are officials from many governments across the region, as well as from europe, all gathering together. what they are talking about again is renewed pressure on hamas to take this agreement that is on the table, to release the hostages that it holds, whether dead or alive, to get to a cease-fire. and from that cease-fire, everyone is working toward a massive expansion in humanitarian aid to help all of those civilians in gaza, who had no part in what hamas did on october 7th. and then, to really begin the day after planning. not just humanitarian aid, but clearing out the rubble, getting people back to their homes, getting water turned back on. all the things we need to ensure that there is a viable

future for gaza that is not under the stranglehold of hamas. >> one reason that has been offered for cease-fire negotiations being stalled is because it is still unclear how many hostages in gaza are still alive. here's what national security advisor jake sullivan said on msnbc yesterday. >> if you would have asked me a week ago, i would have said, i felt we are in a deadlock. not that this is hopeless, because we will get this done, but we were at a bit of an impasse. today, i believe that there is a renewed effort underway, even -- involving cutter and egypt, as well as israel, to try to find a way forward, and it is our job to try to find that new life, push it forward, and get it to an endgame where every one of those hostages, including the american hostages, are home safe with their family. >> tina, benjamin netanyahu continues to say that israel is committed to destroying hamas and bringing all of the hostages home. but, the question is, can they both be done, simultaneously? >> i don't think they can both be done, simultaneously.

and this is where some really serious choices are going to be presented to prime minister benjamin netanyahu and his war cabinet. what israel is clearly hearing from across the region is the humanitarian situation is so dire, there are over 1.2 million people packed into rafah, this place where israel believes there is four battalions of hamas remaining. the administration and mr. sullivan have been clear, there is no way to do that military operation that israel wants to do, without a safe, credible way of evacuating all of those civilians. and that is, i think, why hamas is increasing pressure on israel right now, because it knows that israel is under tremendous pressure. israel has heard from egypt that because rafah is right on the border with egypt, there could be a massive flow of civilians into egypt. that would create significant difficulties for egypt. so, the region is really focused on, are there alternatives to this

significant military operation, where hamas is deprived of its ability to reconstitute? and can you continue to threaten israel? but, we also get both the remaining hostages that are alive, but also the deceased, so that their families can have the opportunity to do a dignified, religiously appropriate burial. >> dana strohl, i hope to welcome you back on the broadcast very soon. thank you so much for this conversation. college campus protests spreading like wildfire across the country and the frustration building around them, coming your way, next. ur way, next.

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breaking news, as today students protesting the war in gaza, college campuses across the u.s. are pledging to keep the demonstrations going, amid heated tensions with college administrators. this week, some universities shutting down encampments and arresting hundreds of students, after reports of anti-semitic

activity among some of the protesters. students demanding that schools cut financial ties to israel, and divest from companies they say are enabling the conflict in gaza. our reporters are on the ground in both new york city and los angeles covering the latest. up first, we have nbc's my england at columbia university, where demonstrations last weekend inspired many of these protests around the country. where are the negotiations now, between the students and administrators in the efforts to end the protest? and i am curious what students are demanding of the university. >> reporter: hey, alex. yeah, the negotiations are still ongoing, we know there is a small group of staff and students meeting with administration officials. we are hearing that these talks are tense, it seems to be a bit of a power play and a fragile situation with some pauses in between when these talks are actually happening. some progress has been made. we know that originally, colombia had a deadline of

friday for the pro-palestinian encampment to be removed. that time has since come and gone and the encampment is still here on campus. we know the students inside that and kevin are demanding a few things, one of them is financial transparency of where the money at columbia university is going. and then, a divestment from companies with ties to the israeli government. we are also hearing demands for protection of students and staff involved in this. i want to play some sound from two colombian students, two students from columbia who are involved with these protests. >> we are planning to remain until our demands are met. we have tried so many democratic processes and they have violated their own policies and procedures to crackdown at every turn, so it feels like the only way for us to make our voices heard is to take up presence on the lawn and peacefully say that we will not be moving. >> my impression is, until the divestment demand is met, the incumbent will remain. it was very scary last week when the university six nypd on over 100 students. we were very troubled to see that. regardless, i still think that, you know, people are inspiring each other with their solidarity, and i think things are going strong.

>> reporter: so, the latest from columbia is that the university senate has actually adopted a resolution to investigate the administration's response to the protest. there has been a lot of pushback against the university president. nypd on campus on april 15th. some students even questioning if commencement will be the same, now scheduled for may 15th. we haven't heard of any official changes from the university, but it is scheduled to be on the same location of where this encampment is right now, the west lawn. so, still a lot to figure out here on campus, as both the admin and the protesting students try to come to a resolution. >> via egeland, thank you so much from columbia university in new york. let's head across the country to adrienne broaddus, who was at ucla. of course, the university of california los angeles. what can you tell us about the demonstrations there? it looks like you are right by an encampment. >> reporter: we are, alex.

a lot of similarities here. like many of the colleges we have seen it nationwide, this part of ucla's campus looks like a campground. you noted the encampment. when we showed up, many students were inside of these tents, sleeping. there issue, growing concern over the war in gaza. but, there is a key difference, the tone here is peaceful. we received a statement from the vice chancellor saying in part, "it's also important to note that we are following university of california systemwide policy guidance, which directs us not to request law enforcement involvement preemptively, and only if absolutely necessary to protect the physical safety of our campus community." by contrast, we saw nearly 100 people arrested at the university of southern california, which many of us call usc. also, leaders there made the move to cancel the commencement ceremony. >> we are not the ones

canceling graduations. you can look at this. i think it is a very orderly and safe community. it is a community that cares about humanity, that cares about the safety of palestinians. that is why we are here, and why we will keep being here until the university meets our demands. our demands are disclosure of where the university is investment, a divestment from corporations that profit off of the genocide of palestinians. >> reporter: some of those demands are out of the control of the university, like a cease- fire, which they also mentioned. alex, you have deep ties to the state and know this is a state with two famous schools. we have private usc and public ucla where we are now, but totally different approaches when it comes to cracking down on encampments. alex? >> yeah, you are 100% right. in fact, i am going to tell you, i am an alum of usc, and the reality is that campuswide,

that graduation ceremony has been canceled, but they are allowing the satellite ceremonies for the different schools, such as the outstanding and a brick school for journalism, the cinema school, business school, all of that. but you are right, a huge disappointment, given that about 35,000 people would be expected there in the general proximity of the trojan, and the library, and all of that, where they hold their canvas graduation every year. anyway, adrienne broaddus, thank you so much, i am glad things are peaceful there at ucla for now. anthony scaramucci on how donald trump may be handling the daily grind of his trial. plus, he knows the take on some of the key players in the case. i asked myself, why doesn't pilates exist in harlem? so i started my own studio. getting a brick and mortar in new york is not easy. chase ink has supported us from studio one to studio three. when you start small, you need some big help. and chase ink was that for me. earn up to 5% cash back on business essentials

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prevent karen mcdougal from speaking more widely about her alleged affair with trump. joining me now, anthony scaramucci, former white house communications director, founder of sky bridge capital, and as of yesterday, congratulations, cohost of the podcast "the rest is politics." yay! that's so great. we get to hear you all the time talking about these things third >> well, thanks, alex. >> you were involved in trump's 2016 campaign. you were in the white house when trump won. what can you tell us about how far and wide trump's alleged valiance as were known amongst staffers? and was there any direction on how folks should respond publicly, to the allegations? >> well, you know, listen, honestly, it was never talked about. was there an undercurrent that trump had dalliances? yes, there definitely was. i think he did a good job, frankly, of keeping that in a closed loop of a few people. i think the imposition on hope

hicks and sarah huckabee sanders is sad for them, because both of those people are really good people, and this is what donald trump does to people. he puts them in disloyalty trap. so, both of those people have high morals and they are good standing people, and then trump forces his nonsense onto them, and now they have a loyalty test, in terms of dealing with what he wants them to do. obviously, this is what happened to michael cohen. so, one thing mr. trump is very, very good at, alex, is moving the goal post on people. i think what was most interesting about the testimony of the last couple of days, is that david pecker has seen this movie before. so, he was not interested in having the goalposts moved on him. he was willing to do a few favors for mr. trump, and then he decided that that was going to be enough for him. he wasn't going to be mr.

trump's bank. so, it is a frustrating thing because, listen, everybody is innocent until proven guilty, and this is a criminal case. so, i will just say, everybody is innocent until proven guilty. but, let's face it. people on that campaign team knew about the veracity of the facts associated with this case. >> so, hope hicks being named on the prosecution witness list, how pivotal a role might she play in the trial? >> well, since she is a really good person, i have enormous amount of respect for her, and i think she is going to tell the truth. so, whatever her truth is in terms of interactions, she will end up telling the truth. the problem with all of that is, she likes mr. trump and she has been loyal to mr. trump. this is where you get this intersection, that is what rona graff faced, as well. you are now on the line, somebody has broken the law. this is obviously an election interference issue, a very serious issue. it is not just a hush money

case. so, i am sure hope is being well advised by her lawyers, under no circumstances can you commit perjury in a case like this. just be careful, because the government has access to lots and lots of information. so, you have to tell the truth. i hope that she will do that, even if it hurts mr. trump. >> do you have any sense of any kind of relationship between them now? if they stay in communication? i'm talking about "hopey", as donald trump would call her. >> i actually don't. i actually know that one of my friends, when i worked with goldman sachs, recently married hope. i wish them great success. she is a lovely person. but again, this is just the problem of working with mr. trump. so, maybe to build but are thinking about working for mr. trump don't watch msnbc, but by chance if you are, don't work for mr. trump, because he will

put you in a situation that is indescribable and you will be painted into the corner before long, and you are really going to regret that you work for him. so, don't work for mr. trump. i think that is the resonating message of the last eight days in this trial. >> as the trump team is trying to put together a whole host of new employees, potentially, to join him in the white house, should he win the election. but, let's move on to david pecker, who laid bare, really, the worst aspects of the catch and kill and the payment to stormy daniels, as well. how do you think trump might have felt, hearing all of that? >> well, he probably feels that mr. pecker crossed the line of loyalty. but, mr. pecker, frankly, did not cross the line of loyalty. i think when that plan was conceived, people had to know that in the event light was shined on that plan, everybody was going to have an obligation to protect themselves. so, my understanding is that mr. trump said the testimony

was breathtaking and there were some mocking references to the testimony. but, i have had lunch with david before. i have respect for david, as a businessperson. i think david is a very wise person. he is a seasoned. i think you did the right thing in the court, by explaining to the people what actually happened. you could say, well, did he do the right thing by getting involved with mr. trump in the first place? i mean, listen, obviously, he probably wishes he didn't and regrets that he did that, but honestly, he is an honest person and gave very direct, very honest testimony. so, we will have to see what happens here. but, i know mr. trump well, well enough to know that he is upset and "mad," asked david pecker for giving that testimony. but, she really didn't have a choice but to give that testimony. when you are under oath like that and you, yourself, could go to jail, the right thing to do is to just tell the truth. >> let's take a listen together on how susan -- suzanne craig described trump in court.

>> reporter: donald trump came in this morning and he looked tired. i think we were all tired. he did have his eyes closed for most of the day. i can't say he is sleeping. sometimes, he is listening with his eyes closed. but, he looked fatigued when he came in. >> look, having been on the campaign trail in 2016 with donald trump, how do you perceive the way he is absorbing the door -- daily grind of this trial? with all of his late-night truth social posts, not being able to drink the reported up to a dozen a day diet cokes -- i mean, this guy is eight years older than he was when you were spending that kind of time with him. >> yeah. well, listen, you know, he looks terrible. i mean, who is kidding who? the question, though, is what is going to be the aftermath of this? so, i said on "the rest is politics," the u.s. version of the podcast on friday, that he

probably doesn't go to jail. let's say the worst thing happens to him, he will probably be confined. i don't think they would put a former president in jail, he probably end up with an embarrassing ankle bracelet and will have to campaign over zoom for a period of time. but, it is embarrassing. there is no question about this. his lovely wife's birthday was this past week. he sort of -- this is an ironic twist -- he is wishing her a happy birthday from the courtroom where this is a hush money case related to a prostitute that he slept with. and so, i mean, this is the bizarre stuff that goes on in trump world. i guess the real question we have to ask rhetorically, how is this man still standing for president? and what does it say about you, if you are supporting mr. trump at this moment in u.s. history? and so, i would really caution people about all of this. i think the next six months for mr. trump are going to be worse for him than the prior six

months. he not only has to face this -- he will likely, probably face one or two other charges -- people seem to think that this is going to get delayed by the supreme court. i am going to take the other side of that. i think this case starts -- the court is not going to grant him absolute immunity. if they do that, it would be almost like a reneging of the constitution. so, i don't see that happening. i see him in court again before we get to election day, and i think he will be even more miserable than he is today. >> but, can i say, that question you just posed -- boy, that is the money question. you just nailed it. quickly, let me ask you about bytedance, tiktok. bytedance says it won't ever sell tiktok in the u.s., it will just shut it down. do you think that is likely? would they have incentive to sell? >> well, listen. you will learn that this is really controlled by the chinese government, because -- and i believe that it obviously

is. just trying to punch in something related to tenant square and see how that doesn't get any exposure in their algorithm. so, if it is related to the chinese government -- which i believe it is -- i believe that is the right course for them. the government doesn't care. they have unlimited amounts of money. they will shut it down. it will be a spiteful thing to do, but it will be a telling thing to do, because lots of people in the united states that say, look at this, we don't actually believe in the first amendment. we had something controlled by the chinese government that we didn't allow into the system. and so, i think we have to have a reckoning with all of this at this point, alex, of that constitution has not been amended properly since the 1965 voting rights act and i think we are due for a constitutional amendment -- that is a living document that has to be reset. i think we really have to think about what free speech is in this society now. there are people on college campuses talking about the beheading of jewish babies, and death to jewish people. i mean, i find this absolutely

reprehensible, and we have to speak out against this type of hate speech. but, as it relates to the chinese government, if they shut down tiktok, goodbye and good riddance. there will be something else that the united states, this wonderful country of innovation will create in social media that will be even better than tiktok. so, if they shut it down, goodbye and good riddance. if they don't, i would like to see one of my friends like steve mnuchin or bobby kotick take control of it. but remember, they won't get that algorithm. so, it will be a hard thing to take over tiktok, that is my opinion. >> yes, and make it feel as it is right now. okay, anthony scaramucci, it is always good to talk to you, my friend. >> good to be her. thank on the podcast, by the way. very nice. >> that is fabulous. all good for you. thanks point meantime, horror for everyone on the ground and in the air, these look like special-effects from a movie, but they are very real, though.

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very good day to all of

msnbc world headquarters. welcome to alex witt reports. breaking news. a new round of severe weather this weekend after massive tornado outbreak in the midwest. 79 tornadoes reported across six different states on friday. the threat is only getting worse with possible long track tornadoes, large hail and damaging winds today. marissa parra is joining us from oklahoma city. what is the latest where you are? >> reporter: which are starting to see the storms billed here. the skies are taking on a vague yellowish hue and the winds are picking up in the clouds are starting to really darken in color, the rain is starting to pick up. we learned recently from our climate union that there is a