of late but yes. the the hello and welcome to cross ok. we're all things are considered. i'm peter live out . the 9th of may is a venerated day on the russian calendar in march the victory over fascism in europe in 1945. tragically, the collective west just forgotten. the cross talking victory de, i'm joined by my guest, laudermill goldstein in providence. he is the chair of the department of slavic studies at brown university. in belgrade we have steven guides. he is

a research associate at build rates. institute of european studies adding ban and we crossed to alexander markovich. he is head of the 2 vote off institute in vienna . all right, gentlemen, crossed off girls and a fact that means he can jump any time you want. and i always appreciate vladimir, you were born in the soviet union. so i want to go down history lane since this is actually a program about history, a very important history for millions and millions of people around the world, particularly in russia. what was victory day, like when you were living in the soviet union as well? it was a really, really, you know, joyful a holiday. you know, 1st of all, there was a call kind of glossed out of, you know, may, these may 1st may, 2nd may, may 9. so everybody was like, spring, everybody was celebrating and you know, there was, of course, so it shouldn't be just sweet moments. my father was in the war and you know, they always, you know, when people get together there was, remember those google keel that who were not there with them. but still the mood

was a very 1st year. you know, no school. you're going to watch. uh, amazing. parade and on tv at 8 was you know, you can see it, you know, people marching. so it was just a lot of a lot of lives, a lot of call lot, a lot of joy. you know, i, i don't know how many, you know, russians really at that moment solve and so, you know, and started to use that or whatever. but it was like, we all knew, it was like, you know, bones that this is a very on foot. it'd be the best you knew it in your boat, and so you know, it that's come that's here again. and i'll talk about that later in the program here, because i want to talk about how the picture day is being read defined and in very good way in my opinion, saving, you know, in my introduction, the collective west is primarily overwhelmingly kind of forgotten this day this victory day on may, 9th, why is that? okay. i mean, it is, they don't want to give credit to the soviet union slash russians and they have

a fascism problem. now in the west though, there's a lot of different avenues we could discuss when we talk about the app it be in the west. i think of the george or little game. it was the answering his 1984. the ministry of truth is creating or recreating the boss. so that is why, because of the currents of political issues or political agendas, they are a minuscule in the middle of the soviet union. they don't want to mention that almost 30000000 a soviet mostly russian citizens died, were killed or died liberating europe. and especially now that we have this a revival of naziism in the, in the west, in general. but especially on the european content 1st and started with the eastern europe, but then it spread. uh so uh, if the rumors are true,

uh, the symbolism of the victory, the russian flags, the soviet flags wouldn't be bad in, in berlin for the 9th of may. but we'll see anyways, uh that is a is a issue that they have a problem with and also uh well when we talk about historical revisionism, it is germany that is not as k that came out with a resolution that wants the slander ser herbs. and that was the germans who during world war 2 shots of thousands of. busy not only citizens, but also a screen and children, especially in the, in the city of clark, we have, that's during world war 2. so uh now uh, with historical revisionism, his game to outrages levels. well, it's very interesting, alexander, when i was a young man. um, one of the most impressive documentary is i've ever seen up,

up until today was the world that war was made um by the bbc. and it was a brilliant, brilliant series. and primarily because it had witnesses, people that were actually witnessed the events making these kind of document trees that were very difficult because it can't really, you don't have witnesses that it's essentially been washed away. it's not on youtube anymore. when it was a got, it had millions of hits, it was one of the but i, i believe one of the greatest documentary is ever made. but there was a 2 episodes in that documentary series that was, i guess you would say today was sympathetic to the soviet union. that's for bowden today. alexander. well, yes, um. as i mentioned before, there's a certain political trends in the west which actually tries to diminish the soviet casualties. and um, also the soviet contribution to actually defeating fascism,

the media, and then just story all christie. and therefore of course, for example, if you look at the change of the official narrative from the west, if you could somehow get the impression that it was actually not the soviet union fighting against hitler and the nazis. and while the 2 bots that there were some kind of ally of national socialism and fascism. yeah. instead it was just because of the united states of great britain, that fascist and was defeated, which was of course um, totally wrong thoughts. since you don't all have this western um, war of aggression against russia and um, in this overall war. so ukraine of cause you're trying to keep an ice russia as much as possible. and um, this means also um, altering the history itself like um that before the ministry of price is alive and

well again, it seems and stuff for you. i have this strange kind off. um yeah. history policy um, going on? no. the only try many way or no, uh no longer lots to show. so if you have the flex on the um associates they are for 3, but uh were um trying to media for example, also try to portray um letting me put in um as the 2nd the other fiddler. um yeah. us back in an hour. if it's all a while, the same germany that you're talking about is arming a fascist big battalions in, in your, in ukraine. so it, absolutely. germany has a lot to, it has a lot to answer for, particularly today. okay. but to me, you know, one of the things that we've seen here is that when we look at the narrative of the destruction, the passes them in europe, you have a, yeah, the hollywood version, saving private. ryan, the wars over after the invasion of normandy,

apparently to hollywood. and then you have this very despicable trend of equating this, the soviet union and nazi germany as being the same thing. both are historically obviously wrong. vladimir. yeah, he is being a user and unfortunately in the, uh, it was very, you know, very successful campaign i guess in the west, you know, we know by the side is the winter. they asked a french people that ride after the war. every contribution in the rush or what would be like i said, it's like the main continued the victory. you move forward. 17 years ago, you know, the same ball and all of a sudden the same french people say that, you know, united states, i mean, contribute. and i tell you are a complete exec, i don't need any of those from. i teach in korea, we're teaching the course that he hello places on the russian culture and my quality historian says to the students, they went to talking about war 2. and that's the last one,

the war students look like with a big surprise. yeah. and he said, yeah, yeah, and brings all of this kind of what was concrete, historical data that they had, you know, okay, you a young students that listen to that, then i am hanging out with my friends all university indicated. and they just refer to the zip is all they looked at me was of course, americans wonder what are you talking about. so these are them making things up as you know, i know i know this of that. so, but i would add that it is done for a very particular and the new failures. and the reason, because if you're different than i, is that the russians lost so many people in the, you know, such a, such a major and you're bound to take the country and it's interest very seriously. you're bound to take very concerns about national security or, you know, the safety of the board has to use if you, if you think that they didn't do anything, they just don't think it was used. and i think it's really kind of funny of how the whole narrative shaped event. you know, now 1st of all, take the interest. oh,

jewish people, serious me. they remember there was a photo of course. so this is taken seriously. but the last of forget about this is kind of really peculiar. so, you know, we won't bends over backwards to understand the drama still understand it isn't that there's all rigidity it. but what about, you know, russia, what about the national goods and they've been, the board has been crossed again and again and again. but in reading your being forces, who is there just because i didn't, was the russian because initially they just the boy diminish it. and, and just into and, you know, look i the gate tweak now. russians do not. yeah. you know, is stephen, the, the historical fact is that the, the, the red army liberated all of the death camps and other camps as it moved west. that history is being forgotten to steven. exactly. i mean, if you ask people, i remember personally, i was starting in the united states and i have these conversations of we were to

and, and who was the greatest continued contributor? i was obviously saying it was the soviet union and people would laugh. i mean they think that the. busy or was one in the pacific in baffles the some islands withdrew but with japan and normandy and the rest is a, is some blurry picture to doesn't really exist, especially me, the uh, the story with the death camps deborah o liberated by the soviet union. and this is why the holocaust ended when the red army entered these places. so up until they were liberated the, the factories of that were working. and this is one of the uh, the level st greatest. uh uh, she went to terry and achievements during the war, but it is only one of the episode and it is not only not recognized. uh,

but uh, it seems that the sanctions, b, c of west against russia are going beyond today's moment. however, uh, by doing this uh, the mainstream west or history other fee has isolated itself as the west has in general. well, what? well, what they do before we go to the rank here, they celebrate nazis and canada. we saw that. ok, we saw that in the end, and that's not going to be the end of the gentleman. i'm going to jump in here. we're going to go to a short break. and after that short break, we'll continue our discussion on victory de state without the or the

take a fresh look around his life. kaleidoscopic isn't just a shifted reality distortion by power to division with no real opinions fixtures designed to simplify. it will confuse who really wants a better wills, and is it just because it shows very few fractured images presented to this, but can you see through their illusion going underground can a new video of alleged abuse by an officer today,

the sheriff's deputy in columbia, south carolina forcibly removed his student from a classroom at spring valley high school. i saw him just talked to her sprained her and initially, you know, i didn't think it was a problem because i knew that she was just this quiet student in the class. someone looked at the police officer and says, here was law enforcement that is worse, clearly attacking, abusing power and it ended. the other is precise. this is what's wrong with those poorly be on discipline. black children, he was there enforcing a lot to meet the crime, to quote, disturb schools in any way. that means any disturbance that any kids causes and school is huge and forces never predict but necessary. a tops people were never gonna change them out. and so people will never change their minds about video. they think i was wrong. and that's it. the welcome back

across stock were all things are considered. i'm peter real about your mind. you were discussing victory day. the okay, let's go back to alexandria in vienna. one of the interesting things here, since we're talking about history and history all graphy, we look at the present day, the proxy war that is being waged against russia using ukraine. if we think back into 1941, when the soviet union was invaded, nazi germany had an array of a co, a coalition of countries it occupied. it was allied with and it was a collective west, not the united states yet, but in the collective west, under the rule of the nazi germany invaded the soviet union. now let's go up to today. russia is facing a wide coalition of western countries, almost exactly the same ones. and it stand off over you crate a lot. you know,

if you say that, that's all that's heresy for a lot of people because, you know, with, with rush is saying and the bottom here is already touched upon it. you know, way back your way. where as of invasions, where did they come from? they come from the west. go ahead. alexander, i'm yes, exactly. i just recently watched um the great movie um, alexander, near steve, i said, okay, um eisenstein mm. which actually premier then 19 um, i guess it was 1941 um, shortly before the start of operation. but most of the not situation of the soviet union, which actually had this very topic that there was a long history of western aggression against russia. of course, coming from the west to russia because the west is not able to accept russia as the other as a different civilization. right. which is actually not itself and therefore it's, yeah, regularly you could say, tries to destroy russia to obliterate it,

to colonize it. um, to carry the parts as we could see in all these plans about the so called the color nice ation of russia. and unfortunately, there are also these plans of exterminating russian people as we could see. not only during then i've done aust bucks. also, during the day of puts machine seems 2014 events in odessa. what's happened in don't boss which domestic us there. and yeah, definitely, but of course the west somehow try. so i'm so mad let's actually, despite the fact that it's that there is a long history also, aggressions coming from the west to russia. instead of course, russia um is not illuminating um or insane. if it says that it has a need for secure to guarantees by the west, the test a need for peace in eastern europe and for security zone. and of course style

for this 3 maybe is not directly repeating itself, but it's rhymes. as i said, there's going to and see there's a real the running from the middle ages. exactly what the nazi regression until no, no doubt that there is a pattern here. vladimir, it's very interesting. again, if you look at it, if you want to take history seriously, russia, what we to imperial russia, what we call russian today, is the only major land mass, the western powers never call on ice. and that is what they see is a missed opportunity and they, they, they haven't given up on it. they, russia is the only one that stands out there was not colonized by an outside or vladimir. yeah, it's a unique civilization. there is a way to go to the story and marshal ball and he wrote about the if you said yes it's and indeed is that, you know, a peculiar uh, unique caution civilization or reach it didn't fall on the other worse than it's x

. you know, you can look for either, you know, formative it is asian or older minds, indians, mexicans, in, uh, training is they all will cross by the west and it will shape in the, there they own the image and likeness as opposed to roger. who is the addition that goes into the, you know, tremendous efforts to defeat a, you know, a very innovative and i would say with an ad to alexander, you're not allow alexander in the near ski film these uh, a tony. it's nice, which in rate is, you know, rational lands and in yesterday defeated drugs into they were actually related to this sport uh, over a rest the night school in 4th grade on their way to edward jerusalem. they actually 6 comes on general, but yeah, they just drop this off the ropes in house, and that is what they did. so these are the say, the really, you know, say we were getting and there also sorta facility just to really just,

they mentioned overall should as well because it actually is unique, a careful of fees. jayenne is sort as ation religion. so somehow the rest feels very uncomfortable about it was because the oldest invoice amount over sources and it is a model of who and, and that was like, you know, a very big interface, the more so for the west ramp and they continue to do that. so it's a lot of noise, it's what you expect and that's paranoid, you know, saving it again, broadly speaking, if we look at what would many would call the greatest hills of the, of the 20th century fascism in for many people, communism fair enough here. but they're all what, those are western ideas, western ideas, they came from the west. unfortunately, it took cold in it, and i'm just expressing my opinion in russia. russia is recovered from that promoters experience. but these are western ideas they've russia is had to confront . oh yeah, that is that is uh to uh,

i'd like to go back to the the issue of broader here a be a west of your vehicle is a guest against russia. this is in a way, a unique situation that we are witnessing now that the west is almost completely united or completely united against russia. but it was not the 1st time all the 19th century, there was a tried me of war. uh, look at the quotation of a broader position of western countries, but also before that the napoleonic wars, we always see it as the russians versus the french. but in fact, the french army goes, visited. busy many otter, western european peoples and, and small armies that were and there were joining in. so in a sense, there is a cycle, a historical cycle of the component that you mention ideas. these all is also very important because russia was um, for last 300 years, always. unfortunately, it's some kind of a, a cultural, he's a pre, uh,

looking at the was yes and they don't get affected by the ideas that the crowds that eventually be almost legal to it. and the, i think that this is a peculiar moment to the sense that russia is finally awake and, and i don't think that they will repeat the same pattern that started somewhere with the reforms of peter degrades. and the russia is basically, i think coming back to itself. well yeah, in and out as stephen i to add to that i agree with you. absolutely. the difference is rush is modernized itself. it's not it. and it disadvantages, like it was before, particularly as you brought up the cry, me in more, alexandra, i've lived here for 26 years and i studied european in russian history in a graduate school. and, you know, i always looked at the, the victory day may, 9th is during the soviet union is a legitimizing factor for the communist party. they won the war and they should get

the credit. fair enough i, i'm not going to take away from that, but i think now in, in the 21st century a we've already touched upon in this program. this is also a separate celebration of values and i would say conservative values also go ahead . alexander. yes, um i would agree with you since of course the great picture of the board in russian historiography is um, connected with the defense of the model lines with the defense of russian software entity and also of course was the defeat of fascism and definitely worse to defeat or from west and the aggression against russia and just that for of course it's not only an important day for russia, but for yeah, most european countries. yeah, definitely also because that meant the ends of fascist months. there may be also the ordinary germans and all spencer suffert's from the consequences of the defeat

of fascism. but i guess that's the wherever the feet of fascism itself is an important events. because unfortunately, neither a communist, smaller conservatives, and all students in germany were actually able to topple the hitler regime and fascism by themselves. so they needed this help from the outside. otherwise we would maybe still, if under, fast as through. and i guess therefore it's also an important day for europe itself . yeah. well, why do i mean it should be, but it's not okay. because, you know, you've been on this program many times. i mean, i always appreciated, but this is also a culture war. the west pres, rejects russians culture and its attitudes and its value. so that's part of this proxy war against russia. vladimir. yeah, i mean is a, is there, is it, you know, we can order a witness that is there recently, you know, approval by the one in ukraine out of the blue seeds of performances i can so

authorize the form is a can so in our i so it's good for you, but it, it, yeah, it was like, i remember was reading they had such a moment. usually they wanted to teach a course on, on this, they ask you that you and they came up with the idea. maybe it's not that, but what it means it's not that this is like, well caustic list ever put your benefits. you know, i did, you know, i told us to ask you about the semester students. this is do the, as they open up the hippie, you know, we have one of the most popular courses in our department and the other day is the best that was on the whole story. you know, this is like universal list and it has to be any customized and appreciate it. but i would also say that to us also have to appreciate, you know, a west than that is there's, you know, we should just diminish it. i mean to be the great was, was a very wise guy in the global guy. he was 500 or i can use it to deal with the west to find the where the has to have more than the more than this one that so why don't you have to be very kind of creative in this not, not, you know, not slave,

honestly, the beach in western preference which priority to not walk in. no rush, i suppose it a different piece. they thought the different culture, but to use them for a magically there's absolutely kind of nothing wrong with it. and i think i would say that, you know, with some smart west and this extra understanding and i know all the, you know, the caller id or for example, sustainable agriculture. what do we actively develop by ration, you know, scientists and don't get, grew up working. he was like very much, you know, very much, but they do it and they, and they know that and then on. and so i think it's west going to be problematic, allows you to do problem logic, do it well you know i, i will what we've run out of time. i just, i, i wish the, the westwood act on its words. you know, like accept diversity. they don't accept diversity that has a russian person characteristics with it. gentlemen, thank you very much. that's all the time we have one, i think, my guess, and providence be in it. and in belgrade and of course i want to thank our yours for watching us here. at archie, see you next time. remember process the

0 near ship did it should. so with the general miles scam, i don't only neely combine in that. i mean, they have yet give us 10 years or more and it started, they pushed ok grants and to show us where to where to question when you come or sure we have to put it on the floor. and so it was, if i gave me the model, is your name really quick here to raise your bill lowered to visit with the air conditioner for his tortures their performance

or just shoot both of these from whole show. yeah. cause i know trying to set our september sister, i was in dearly or court a church that we are will in their power tools or what have you or she of or who has no money orders. the bills are here for the, for in june 33rd wrong there 3. yeah. corner santori does your more the it's, it's almost almost a cliche in the west but this whole idea of with my to the last few frames and best some truth behind it. i mean, think about it for the american, the $60000000000.00 for the reason. a package, not a lot of money. a lot of money stays within the united states in terms of the defense contracts and the like. and pull the money that, you know, they buy time,

they prolong the wall to keep rush of busy. you know, this is the, ultimately, this what the west is doing is on the file. you know, try for the west to take him and a a, the political pundits in the united states are to be believed. the issues of border security and undocumented immigration will be the over riding political themes of this year's presidential election. donald trump famously said in 2016 that he would build a wall along the us mexico border and quote, mexico will pay for it. and quote, that was ridiculous. of course, republicans now excuse joe biden, of having what they call an open border policy. that too is ridiculous. 12 biden's

rhetoric may not be as angry or in some cases as up to says trump fighting is no friend of the immigrant without a visa. i'm john kerry onto welcome to the whistle blowers the . 2 2 2 2 2 i'd like to read you something written by our guest today. quote. on january 14th, vic derma della sanchez said us a 33 year old mother from mexico city, stepped into the rio grande, holding the hands of her to children. you are lie, ruby, age 10, and jonathan augustine, very honest, the sancha 8. we don't know how they got into trouble in the strong current, or if they even knew how to swim, group of bait, mexico's border rescue service, saw them struggling and called the us border patrol. agents went to the park gate a couple of miles from the boat ramp.